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Talk:Wired detainee
From Wikileaks
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[edit] observations
first off where the piercing is. Its not in the earlobe, but farther up. it looks like its through the cartilige. also, next to the safety pin, if thats even what it is, there is a red piece of wire jabbed through the ear.
His eyes are red and swollen. He has been crying recently.
also, the wires have been curled at the ends to prevent him from pulling them out. the thread has also been tied in a similar fashion.
Also, if you look at the right side of his face, where the biggest wire loops you can see another hole where the wire was pulled out.
It looks like its through either his gums or teeth too wiriing his jaw shut
His beard looks well maintained, which may be a sign that this is not, in fact, a detainee. On the other hand, he is wearing cheap and/or damaged clothing, which may negate the significance of being clean shaven.
looks like they also put salt on his wounds, how cruel
[edit] Detainee Pic
This picture is a fake. If you view all the spots (i.e. the wires, thread ets..) you will notice up close that there is a blue tint to all the spots. That is the first indication that this photo has been doctored and is a fake. The person who made this is good but sloppy. They did not fade out the blue tint, which means that the lighting is different than the actual picture taken. Someone wants to make the US military look bad...hmmm like finding a needle in a haystack.
- No, this is the flash reflection of the material. Wikileaks 18:59, 22 July 2008 (GMT)
I see no apparent evidence of photoshopping; the "blue tint" mentioned above is hardly that. It is plausible that there would be a bluish area around blue thread and metal wire.
[edit] What is the implication here?
Is the original poster implying that the wiring was performed by an interrogator/jailer associated with whatever "black site" this guy is supposedly being detained in? Toward what end? Assuming it is not a fake, I'd have to agree with the premise that the wiring is a lousy attempt by a non-professional at affecting some kind of on-the-fly first aid or skeletal repair procedure.
- Is sewing his lips shut part of the "repair" as well?
- It is by no means clear (even in the full sized pic) that the lips are sewn shut... that is speculation. It is clear that there is a stitch through the bottom lip. This could, again, be a bad attempt at closing a lip injury.
[edit] Location
Is the speculated location of Bagram Theater Internment Facility just a random guess? Or does someone have some hint of information that this picture was taken there? I don't understand why it is mentioned.
- Educated guess. Wikileaks 21:08, 22 July 2008 (GMT)
Since it is confirmed from a US military network, it may have come from an IP address which can be reasonably associated with that location. We'd need Wikilinks to confirm their reasoning, though.
[edit] I DUNNO...
It could have been faked, or it could have been a half-ass attempt at dental surgery for a broken jaw, or it could be... anything. When photo shopping became common, I quit believing pictures and video, or at best, I took both with a grain of salt. Who knows what the hell is going on in this pic? Even if the guy was being wired up for non-surgical reasons, what is the real story? The issue that it was (supposedly) leaked from a military computer doesn't say anything about the military, good OR bad. This is a weird and somewhat disturbing photo, but without a verifiable story behind it, it's just that and only that, like a lot of other stuff on the internet.
- not only that, but the "military computer" could well be a military member's personal laptop or even their office desktop, with the picture being something they personally downloaded. The fact that it originates on a military computer does not indicate that it is part of the record of a military investigation or even that it occurred within a military environment.
[edit] Just the facts ma'am
According to wikipedia, John Walker Lindh was being held at a medium security prison at Victorville, CA at that time the digital camera metadata was taken which would be contradictory to the claim that the photo was possibly taken at the US Bagram Theater Internment Facility in Afghanistan. Whether or not the detainee is John Walker Lindh is open to debate.
[edit] backup
Something this explosive should be accompanied by supplemental material. If anyone has any, please post it. Otherwise, this could be from the back of a Gen-X'er tattoo/piercing parlor in SF Bay, or a college project on special effects and makeup, etc..
Does anyone know if detainees at US internment camps are not required to wear a uniform, like an orange jumpsuit?
[edit] Wild Speculation?
There is little that can be discerned from this photograph, even if it isn't doctored. The subject, the location, the actions and motives of those responsible can in no way be discovered by analysing this picture alone. While this may well have been the work of the US military, Wikileaks provides zero information to support that notion. Care to share the knowledge behind your educated guesses?
[edit] The nose?
Why is the nose highlighted in the image with the inverted colors? It looks like the black spot is just the shine on his nose
[edit] PMOI Defector at Camp Ashraf, Iraq
Unfortunately I have seen this picture and many like it during my time serving with the MP unit who was responsible for the security of Camp Ashraf Iraq. Camp Ashraf housed, and I think still does, the Peoples Mujahideen of Iran, a terrorist organization that used to work for Saddam Hussein. Their officially stated goal is to remove the current government in Iran and to replace it with an Islamo/Marxist style government. The US Military is responsible for keeping the thousands of PMOI members under "house arrest" on Camp Ashraf, while simultaneously protecting them from outside parties in Iraq that wish to do them harm. Members of the PMOI defect from the organization, as it is extremely cult like and strict, and must go to the US element on the camp to ask to defect. Unfortunately, the US is not able to let them leave the camp as the Iraqi Government will not let them live in Iraq. This causes the US to keep them in a detention facility...as they cannot leave the camp. The defectors get tired of being stuck in the camp and often stage scenes like this as a way to protest the US not releasing them from Camp Ashraf. Bottom line: the wounds were self inflicted by the detainee (an Iranian/persian ethnicity) and were meant to act as a sign of protest to the MP guards and other detainees in the camp. The MPs have to take official photographs of the incident and conduct an investigation to ensure that no US persons were involved and that there was no evidence of abuse. The photo is from 2004, I forget which date it was originally taken; it is of a PMOI defector in US custody; and the wounds were self inflicted by the detainee(to sew the mouth shut sybolizing his lack of voice over his current state as a detainee).
- Thank God. I can't tell you how relieved I am to know this.
[edit] Vladimir Arutunyan
This is a picture of Vladimir Arutunyan, a Georgian of Armenian descent. He is not a US detainee and he performed self-mutilation. This fact was previously posted here and removed by a vandal. End the charade.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Arutinian http://www.habervitrini.com/haber.asp?id=203114 (Article with image of his lips sewn together in an identical manner)
- Obviously not the same individual the PMOI claims seems likely to be valid.
[edit] Self-Inflicted?
I don't doubt the possibility, but how secure are the detention centers when a detainee can secure wire and needles needed to perform this self mutilation?
Just wondering.
@The nose?
Why is the nose highlighted in the image with the inverted colors? It looks like the black spot is just the shine on his nose
I see some light, possibly from the flash during the picture or a low watt bulb hanging above the individual.
Personally, this looks like a form of black propaganda[2]. I doubt this individual is at any camp or ever was detained by the United States. There has been no concrete evidence to support that this image is authentic.
@Self-Inflicted
Good point they most likely wouldnt have let the individual stuff metal in his face.